Because you'll be reading most of As I Lay Dying during the vacation. Here is a place where you can post comments and questions. Think of the comments box as the dry erase board. Think of your comments as post-it notes. I'd like to see four comments (post-it length) from each of you by January 7th or if you'd like to squish your comments into one long comment that'll work too. I'd like for all of you to ask at least one thoughtful question for others to pick up. I'd also like for all of you to respond to at least one post by a peer.
Think about motifs and their effect on the meaning and experience of reading.
Think about narration and language...
Think about themes, especially identity (how do we identify ourselves, with what do we identify) and alienation and love and death.
I'd like us to also start thinking about thematic and stylistic links between novels. (How would you compare As I Lay Dying to other works we've read this year and before?)
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23 comments:
This is just for the first 100 or so pages:
The lafe comment, usually said by Dewey Dell, seems to coincide with the worst situations.
The three dollar comment comes in throughout, but where is it important ?
Tull is the smartest one, and seems to see the situation truthfully.
Is the young one they are talking about Darl or Vardaman?
Interestingly, in the end Darl is sent off the nut-house, when he makes the sanest decisions throughout.
Darl is seen as the queer one in the family by the neighboring country folks, when he’s got a bum father, I psycho younger brother, a brain injured older brother, a depressed younger sister, and seriously disillusioned little brother. Darl is only queer in that he’s the only one in his family that isn’t teetering on the brink of insanity.
In a few of Darl’s sections he is describing situations that he is not actually witnessing. For example, Darl’s point of view is used to describe the funeral scene when during that part of the story Darl and Jewel are out making three bucks in town. How could Darl ever know any details about the funeral?
Does anyone have any idea who that woman was at the very end that Anse called Mrs. Bundren? Did he get married again?
Molly, I think that the three dollar comment is brought up constantly to remind the reader that this is one seriously messed up family. What sort of children leaves their mother on her death bed to go make a few fast bucks? They’re a real bunch of weirdoes.
Anse seems particularly concerned with the fact that the house is on a road. I think this reveals that he is uncomfortable having his family in the public eye.
Anse does not buy the teeth at the end on a whim (once he gets the money), but actually mentions the teeth as far back as page 52.
Mr and Mrs Tull (Vernon and Cora) are not referred to consistently as one name. Characters seem to shift between their first name and their more formal title. The same is true of other characters like the reverend.
I find it interesting that, in the pursuit of making the perfect coffin for Addie, Cash accidently drills holes in her face. This is somewhat similar to the overall family's struggle in trying to accomplish one thing, but consequently causing harm.
John, I think the author uses Darl to narrate even when he is not there because Darl's narration is the most clear, and without it, it would be difficult (or more difficult...) for the reader to understand what is going on.
Does anyone know the significance of the italics? I went from thinking they showed Addie's disembodied thoughts to thinking they showed the past to thinking they were the narrator's inner monologue, but I am not confident with any of these thoughts...
Tull said, "For the Lord aimed for him to do and not to spend too much time thinking, because his brain it's like a piece of machinery: it won't stand a whole lot of racking." The Bundrens do not think, they just do. This is illustrated by Cash's constant sawing and construction of the coffin. Anse insists on carrying out Addie's death wish, despite the barriers that stand in the way. The family continues to move forward, similar to a machine, without thought. It's ironic that the family is so devoted to burying Addie properly, when she did not seem to care for her children's lives. Anse does not seem to be the brightest, for example, when he puts cement on Cash's broken leg in an attempt to fix it. Darl seems to be the only one who thinks and whose narration is coherent, but he gets his sister pregnant and is sent to an insane asylum. Vardaman is always observing and thinking, but his thoughts often don't make sense, unless they are supposed to have some deeper meaning I'm not aware of right now.
Religion and faith are brought up throughout the novel. The Bundrens do not seem religious, but pray only when they are in a situation in which they feel they need to. Is Faulker mocking Cora's perception of religion?
Cora’s simple character is personified through the usage of run-on sentences. Her thoughts are intelligent but not polished and educated.
On p.20 Darl mentions that whispers are heard very clearly in particular spots. In architecture this type of structure that carries the sound like that is called a whispering dome. It seems very symbolic, the Bundren family has secrets but they are common knowledge. Nothing is hidden, things are just ignored.
On p.39 Darl says: “It takes two people to make you, and one people to die.” According to this logic is the Bundren family as a whole dead?
What was the sin that Whitfield wanted to confess to Addie? He seemed to want to tell the whole family but he could not face Anse without Addie, why?
Addie seemed to have given up after she gave up on life after she had Jewel. He was her final punishment.
In response to Dan’s comment: The italics seem to be the intelligent thought of the family members, the real person peeking out from the screens and filters of experience that have corrupted everyone.
Language: Falkner uses a distinct style that tries to “mimic” internal monologue – which is often repetitive, with equal moments of simplicity and complex tangents. The repetition was a perfect choice for most of the narratives, driving home the thoughts of the characters and giving the words a lingering, haunting effect.
Language II: Though the tone subtly changes between characters, I feel like the narration did not change enough for me (the reader) to honestly believe in the possibility of several different perspectives; I was still aware that an author (or higher voice) was present. There would be moments when characters voiced comments in ways I thought was breaking character (Vardaman; “ It is as though the dark were resolving him out of his integrity, into an unrelated scattering of components…p. 56). This thought in particular strikes me as too eloquent for the character, and took me out of the narrative. On its own though, it is a beautiful piece of writing. One of the only characters who seemed comfortable with this style of dialogue was Darl.
Motifs: Specific motifs I noted were fish, God & religion, sweat, labor, air (dead and warm), rain, roles of women and men, singing, and lines. The last one I mentioned, lines, is especially interesting to me. There is a comment by Anse (p. 36) which comments about how God sets things up: “When He aims for something to be always a-moving, He makes it long ways, like a road or a horse or a wagon. But when he aims for something to stay put, He makes it up and down ways, like a tree or a man.” After this, I noticed there were mentions of vertical, horizontal and diagonal lines throughout the book. Addie herself is horizontal, moving towards her death in her coffin. The Bundrens are defying this law by moving her too her final resting place. The coffin, as Cash explains, is built on a bevel, with slanted pieces. Other examples are in the book, just ask me.
Theme & Effect: The overall effect of this book on me, personally, is obvious; I felt a deep sense of unsettlement, always feeling as if I did not have the big picture and that I would have to keep moving to find it (although it was never fully realized – as is life from a single perspective possibly?...). Identity – both individual and as a family – directly correlates with this idea of emotional unrest, and how you fit into a larger group. Relationships in this book were very important to me, and I’m still unsure how certain members of the family viewed other characters. Did Anse love Addie? How did Dewey Dell really feel about Cash, Darl, and Jewell? How did Anse feel about Jewell? I think these unclear relationships are very realistic, as the opinions upon others evolve and change in reaction to situations. This unrest – as well as the idea of a physical and emotional journey – reminded me of that of Ellison’s invisible man.
I expected the novel to be about a close family mourning their mother's death as she is transfered to her burial site, but not with the typical family I expected. The Bundren's are a dark family with awful quantities. Infact, I found it difficult to tolerate some of the actions of the characters.
What I found respectable of the characters is their devotion to their dying mother. Although he is a quiet character, his desire to fullfill his mother's dying wishes are admirable.
The family does appear to life as machines, like Avery mentioned. They are caught in a constant motion and never question things around them. The fact that they are traveling a great distance to bury their mother is surprisingly due to the their disinterest in each other.
Since they are poor, hard work seems to be the only factor which they can use to create value among themselves. Money seems to be a dangerous weapon in the novel, especially with Anse's demand to have as much wealth around him as possible. He does everything possible to not appear poor and escape the social class his family is in. The fact that wealth is a concern to the family is states directly in the beginning by the religious Cora;""Riches is nothing in the face of the Lord, for He can see into the heart." page 7.
This also describes the situations the Burdens get into and pray for help or guidance. Although they are not religious, they pray to God only in their time of need, which is the entire opposite purpose of a religion.
I mostly just have questions. I have noticed a lot, but I can't quite figure out most of the significance.
I'm wondering what's the significance of fish? Actually, all animals for that matter, particularly the buzzard that follows the family on their trip.
I noticed that the language does a good job of revealing characteristics of the Bundren's that I don't think Faulkner could have gotten across otherwise.
The stream of conscious writing gets easier to comprehend as you embark on the journey with the family. I think it creates a greater connection between the reader and the characters.
I find the family dynamic to be particularly interesting. It is really a great example of family roles and how each person deals with loss differently.
And, in response to Erin in response to Dan... I had never thought of the italics in that way. It has made me reflect on the italics in a totally different way. To be perfectly honest, I hadn't really figured out what was going on with those.
It is obvious of the significance of wood in this book. From simply being the building materials for Addie's coffin, Darl also uses the theme in another form: to describe Jewel. Darl tells Jewel the death of Addie in a somewhat woody-setting. The material used to hold death, essentially, can be used to form bonds.
Darl's perception seems slightly skweded, almost supernatural. He is often heard narrating scenes or memories that he was not present for. This could suggest some level of madnesssupernatural-esque being.
I am asking the same question as Ben. What is the significance of fish? In the beginning of section 15, he begins to think about breathing and animals. Is this significant?
Tull comments that Darl thinks too much. This further adds to Darl's seemingly intricate and thorough mind. The other Bundrens seem to take things as they come more. This is where Darl differs from them.
I said in my comment that Darl got Dewey Dell pregnant, but that's wrong apparently so don't listen to me. This book confuses me.
I found Addie's section the most interesting of all the sections since she made sense of why the family was the way they were. She felt no love for anyone except Jewel yet he was eh only one who seemed to show her no love until the end. Her comments on words just being empty shells really revealed how she felt about life.
I really liked Vardaman's reference to his mother being a fish since it showed the way he thinks in an abstract way.
I found it really surprising that the children of the family as well as the father did not begrudge their mother and their mission to take her to where she wished to be buried even though she did not show affection towards them.
Did Anse suddenly go out and marry that woman at the end of the book
when got his false teeth? I was really confused by this part of the last section.
Dan, I thought it was Vardaman that drilled holes in his mother's face when he was trying to make "breathing holes" for her.
I know that Vardaman is mentally handicapped, but he seems to have the most clarity throughout the book, as with Darl and Tull. For some reason, I found that these characters are the least complex and most sane. It is probably because V is so simple in his understanding, he makes sense.
There's a great part in the book where Samson is commenting that they waited too long and they impaired their own progress to Jefferson. It seems to sum it all up.
Tuany, I love your comment about hard work as being valuable. It seems to be true, as the only ones who are respectable work hard.
In response to liberobelmondo's comment (Willy's?,) i also noticed a repetition of wood throughout the novel. I think it could also have a connection to the repetition of logs. The logs floating in the river hamper the family's progress when they try to cross, making it so that they almost lose the coffin and are nearly defeated. After rereading the first page, I found that the house is made of logs, and in the same paragraph Jewel is explained as having "pale eyes like wood set into his wooden face." Wood seems to connect events and characters throughout the book. I agree that it is associated with death.
In response to Ben's comment about animals, I agree hat they seem to play an important role in the novel. The characters often seem similar to animals and are given animal-like characteristics. For example, after looking at Dewey Dell the eyes of the men are compared to those of a mammal: "dead eyes of three blind men those mammalian ludicrosities." At times the characters' actions remind me of animals, for example Anse said that she refused to breast feed Cash and Darl after "their time was up". This seems to signify that once they were no longer reliant on her, she abandoned them in a sense. Also the characters seem to act on instinct and often without thought.
I also do not get what the buzzards signify yet, but they definitely seemed to have some importance in the end. Was Vardaman the only one who noticed their presence?
When first reading I found that the characters were all completely extreme; all miserable and very hard to comprehend. As I read on I still found that the characters were miserable but it was easier to read and understand their streams of thought.
As ben and willie said i was wondering as well of the significance of the fish/animals. I found them referenced continuously, from the hog that someone kills in the beginning, to the fish mentioned over and over.
I found it interesting that Darl was the easiest to understand, yet he in the end is the one who is taken to an insane asylum. Although he did something disturbing, he's thoughts were the clearest.
I know Addies children were determined to properly bury their mother, but did they actually have care for her or was it to fufill a duty? Also with religion, it seemed the family only prayed when they felt they needed their sins to be cleared, so are they actually true to what they supposably believe?
i noticed that Anse kept using the word "begrudge" pretty often, and even some of his children used it. It seemed to stick out to me, in the fact that the family is not very well educated. Most of the family uses simple language and this word didnt seem to fit. Maybe it's used to sound more sophisticated? Which doesnt work because it is only one word, and it being repeated just draws attention to the fact that most of their language is simple and that they arent very well educated.(P. 163,140)
is there significance of Tull using the picture of the coffin rather than using the word? (p.88)
There seems to be some obsession with the state of being in this book; for example, Vardaman questions his existence when he sees his brother in a state of “is different than my is”. And then later Darl says, “I don’t know what I am. I don’t know whether I am or not. Jewel knows he is, because he does not know that he does not know whether he is or not … And since sleep is is-not and rain and wind are was, it is not. Yet the wagon is, because when the wagon was, Addie Bundren will not be. And Jewel is, so Addie Bundren must be. And then I must be.”
Needless to say this confused me very much. Darl also has a passage saying “in a strange room you must empty yourself for sleep,” which also confused me. This bothers me because I think it’s supposed to be very profound but I just don’t get it.
Totally unrelated, but - when I first started reading this book, I thought, “What is it that I’m supposed to get from this? This is just a story about an ignorant, uneducated family and their misery.” After reading the book I thought differently. I really appreciated the honesty in the book; each chapter was like getting a hunk of the character’s brains, verbalizing their thoughts at any given moment. Definitely a refreshing change from the cliché Oprah’s Book Club novels I’ve (ashamedly) been reading lately.
It's interesting that most students here think that the actios and words of characters are hard to ounderstand and seem a bit crazy. I don't think the actions/responses are strange because they are dealing with a very emotionally shattering event. Every character, with the important exception of Darl, is trying to pick upp pieces of their lives fragmented by Addie and the proverbial nail on the coffin. By the time they cross the bridge, survive a barn fire and reach the end, they seem to have gotten over the hump; they are no longer having to deal with Addie's death, whether the reason is that they have been distracted (in the case of Dewey Dell) or just gotten over it (in the case of Vardaman). It's interesting that after their responses to death, the family seems separated (though the introduction of Ms. Bundren at the end could signify a rebuilding process).
Back to Darl: he goes insane because ultimately he cannot pick up the pieces liek vereybody else. He tries to reason out Addie's death, and goes through an existential, Underground-Man phase until he feels like he has to put his thoughts into action. His thoughts on sulfur and the sultry sun earlier in teh novel are manifested by the fire. He cannot only burn the coffin down because he must manifest his thoughts; it is his way of making peace with Addie's death. And the hell/fire imagery is just a fraction of all his thoughts, so he cannot possibly act all of them out.
It's interesting that most students here think that the actios and words of characters are hard to ounderstand and seem a bit crazy. I don't think the actions/responses are strange because they are dealing with a very emotionally shattering event. Every character, with the important exception of Darl, is trying to pick upp pieces of their lives fragmented by Addie and the proverbial nail on the coffin. By the time they cross the bridge, survive a barn fire and reach the end, they seem to have gotten over the hump; they are no longer having to deal with Addie's death, whether the reason is that they have been distracted (in the case of Dewey Dell) or just gotten over it (in the case of Vardaman). It's interesting that after their responses to death, the family seems separated (though the introduction of Ms. Bundren at the end could signify a rebuilding process).
Back to Darl: he goes insane because ultimately he cannot pick up the pieces liek vereybody else. He tries to reason out Addie's death, and goes through an existential, Underground-Man phase until he feels like he has to put his thoughts into action. His thoughts on sulfur and the sultry sun earlier in teh novel are manifested by the fire. He cannot only burn the coffin down because he must manifest his thoughts; it is his way of making peace with Addie's death. And the hell/fire imagery is just a fraction of all his thoughts, so he cannot possibly act all of them out.
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